RALPH 4/25
Aren't you being evasive, Dave? Making a big fuss about whether they walked
EVERY day.
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: Not at all - you are using this assumption in your
argument - I am wondering how you know it to be true - maybe they did walk
every day, maybe they didn't- I DON'T KNOW - I am asking how you know you know.
Ralph
What difference does that make? The "fact" is that it took 3
million people and all their birds and animals, tents and tabernacles, etc.
forty years to to cross a desert only 100 miles across. Obviously, they
didn't march on the Sabbath. Obviously they stopped over, many times. But
if they went in a relatively straight line and followed the path laid out
by their scouts, they wouldn't have taken 40 years to get across. They
could have done it in far less than even 40 weeks, with time out for the
Sabbath, etc.
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: Agreed. They could have. I don't dispute that at all.
Are you saying that just because they could have that this means they SHOULD
have? Is this the basis for your argument that Deut 10:6 and Num 33:30 are
contradictory? That they "should" have done something? Sorry, but what you
feel the Israelites or God "should" have done is of little interest to me.
You always ask me for evidence, now I'm asking you - and you provide nothing
to show me that you know where Moserath and Mt Hor were - deflecting the
issue to how you think the exodus should have been conducted is not the issue.
Ralph
But, as I pointed out and Dave snipped: "I snipped your quote only because
it carried
little weight," Dave's God Yahweh led them by day and by night for the
whole 40 years. No wonder they walked around in circles (or ellipses, or
squares, or triangles, in case Dave objects to circles). But I will readily
agree that with a seeing-eye guide-God like Yahweh leading the way, it was
a miracle that they made it across in only 40 years.
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: Once again, you are asserting what God "should" have
done - are you implying that you know how an omniscient omnipotent being
should behave and act? Is this the basis for your argument?
Ralph
Dave, will you agree that these 3 million men, women and children, together
with all their herds and other baggage could have averaged about 20 miles a
week?
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: Sure. Probably they could have, and more.
Ralph
Maybe they did only 10 miles one week and 30 miles the next. But over
the 40 years they averaged about 20 miles a week. Now 40 x 52 weeks = 2,080
weeks. Give them the extra 80 weeks for R & R, and you have them marching
the total equivalent of 2,000 weeks. So 2,000 x 20 miles gives us the
astounding total of 40,000 miles. Let us rephrase that. They walked,
limped, crawled, hopped, skipped, or trudged 1,000 miles a year. For 40
years. All to cross a mere 100 miles of desert. Yahweh be praised!
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: Yes. Maybe maybe maybe.... They "could" have walked
that much - please show me for a FACT how you know they did - or even why
they SHOULD have. I could drive to Montreal today, and every day, but I
don't. Just because I can, doesn't mean I should - and it certainly doesn't
mean I do.
>
>Ralph (earlier)
>Because "Yahweh went in front of them in a pillar of cloud by day, to lead
>them along the way, and in a pillar of fire by night, to give them light,
>so that they might travel by day and by night. Neither the pillar of cloud
>by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the
>people" (Exodus 13:21-22).
>
>That is what Dave snipped out of my other posting. He doesn't want you to
>know that the whole Exodus tale is nothing but a cock and bull story.
>
>(DAVE 4/25) Ralph: Yes, God led the Israelites. Now please explain to me
>how you have come to know that this forty years in the desert was not part
>of God's "leading"? Once again, the errantist is assuming he knows how or
>what God should be like or do - I snipped your quote only because it carried
>little weight.
>
>Let's get back to the issue - that Moserah and Mount Hor are not in the same
>place. You say they aren't. You are basing your claim, this "founded"
>assertion, on that fact that you can't possibly see how the Israelites would
>be in Sinai for 40 years when they could easily have passed through in much
>less time. You base this on the fact that God was leading them.
RALPH 4/25
Right. See above.
DAVE 4/25
>So, how do you come to conclude that God SHOULD lead them right through the
>Sinai in a fraction of 40 years?
RALPH
Any God worth his salt should be able to do that. Even if he weren't too
bright.
Bottom line, Yahweh is as sorry an excuse for a god as you can get. I
simply can't believe that he is real.
(DAVE 5/2) Ralph: I see. So your basis for a contradiction between Deut
10:6 and Numbers 33:30 is that you "simply can't believe he is real"? Wow,
that is powerful evidence. Please tell me Ralph, which account(s)
concerning Aaron's death is wrong: Deut 10:6 which implies that Aaron died
at Moserath, or Numbers 33 which implies that Aaron died at Mount Hor. This
is the assertion that you are supporting. Which one(s) is wrong?
Failure to answer this clearly shows there is no KNOWN contradiction - and
this thread can simply end (although discussions about their travels would
be interesting).
Regards.
Dave.
"If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was clearly a miracle. Keeping
awake while he did it was, at any rate."
- Mark Twain on the Book of Mormon