Re: 144,000 from ALL the tribes (to Mr. Till)
Ian Dorion (dorioni@intellinet.com)
Mon, 19 May 1997 12:09:13 -0600
yoel haalmoni wrote:
>
> >> yoel haalmoni wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello! The following is a posting of mine from another list (Missionaries
> >> > vs Jews). Mr. Till- am I not correct in this? I am in a rush and couldn't
> >> > find a list of the 12 tribes, but I think the following is correct.
> >> >
> >> > yoel-
> >> > for those who do not know- the 144,000 is from the XB, Revelation 7:4-8. It
> >> > is, according to modern fundamentalists, supposed to be a prophecy and
> >> > reads:
> >> >
> >> > "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed; 144,000 from ALL the
> >> > tribes of Israel.
> >> >
> >> > >From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed
> >> > from the tribe of Reuben 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Gad 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Asher 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Naftali 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Menaseh 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Simeon 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Levi 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Issaschar 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Joseph 12,000
> >> > from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000"
> >> >
> >> > BUT THIS IS A MISTAKE! It's been years since I studied Judaism, so I may be
> >> > wrong, but I am certain that this is incorrect. They are omitting "Efraim"
> >> > and "Dan" and are including "Joseph" as a distinct tribe. Weren't Joseph's
> >> > sons seperate tribes? Menasheh is included above, but Efraim is not. And
> >> > Joseph is given as a distinct tribe. Also, Dan is missing. Isn't this list
> >> > wrong?
> >>
> >> (Ian 5/19) Of course this is wrong! Ephraim and Manasseh were the sons
> >>of Joseph so
> >> Manasseh should not be here. Dan was one of the tribes. Where did
> >>Naftali come from?
> >> See Number: 1-1, the first census.
>
> yoel-
> Naftali is one of the tribes. Efraim and Menasheh were the sons of Joseph
> and they are thought of as distinct tribes. Either they should have listed
> BOTH Efraim and Menasheh or they should have listed ONLY Joseph (though I'm
> not sure that the latter would be correct either). To list Joseph and
> Menasheh is wrong. Also, Dan is missing. Levi is a tribe, but they were an
> ecclesiastic tribe and I believe did not have land.
(Ian 5/19) Yoel, learn to spell! Naphtali, not Naftali. :-)- Funny I didn't
see it the first time.
I'm having problems with my computer again and it took me an hour to get the
last message out.
Anyway, if they are speaking of the twelve tribes, Levi should be included. If
they were speaking of the eleven tribes, Ephraim and Manassah should have been
named and referred to as half-tribes.
> Again, the writer of Revelation (supposedly the Jewish John) obviously did
> not know his Jewish history or Bible very well.
>
> By the way, the Levites are the only tribe which is still distinct within
> Judaism, since they have ecclesiastical tasks in synagogues. The rest,
> which were based on geographic areas (at least in the later days), no
> longer exist as seperate entities within Judaism.