DAR
<<Why is atheism a "system"? Actually all the word tells you is
that the person lacks one single, particular belief. The belief in a
god.
That's it.
Wish you had more to work with, but you don't.>>
Now Walt Jr. responds:
In a message dated 97-03-04 02:28:00 EST, you write:
WALT Jr.
<< Darrel,
It is a system for the simple reason that it has an ethic, it has a
cosmology, it has a psychology, it has a sociological theory,
etc...In fact, atheism provides "answers" for every discipline;
therefore, for you to say that atheism is simply the absence of
belief and that atheists simply maintain nothing is false.
Certainly atheists maintain many universal truths. For instance,
metaphysics is a waste of time. Ethics are ultimately determined
by man. There is no afterlife and therefore justice is to be found
in this life. Man is simply a product of evolutionary forces that
developed consciousness and therefore man is biochemically
determined, etc...
Nice try trying to make atheism look so benign. It certainly
does make claims and many claims at that.
His,
Walt Jr. >>
DAR
It is not too often that a theist makes a post that is totally wrong
in everything it asserts. I think Walt Jr. has just made such a post.
I was glad to see that Yoel had already answered since I made a
12 hour round trip to Dallas today and it is quite late. Therefore I
can be quite brief. Let me add that it would be nice if Walt could
expend some energy in defending his belief in biblical inerrancy
(the subject of this list) and some of his profound assertions
(prophecy, resurrection etc.) rather than continuing to parade his
misconceptions and ignorance about the subject of atheism (not
the subject of this list).
Now, a response line by line...
WALT Jr.
Darrel,
It [atheism] is a system for the simple reason that it has an
ethic,...>>
DAR 3/5
This is false. Atheism has no ethic. The "a" in atheist comes
from the Greek and means "not". "Non" or "without" can also be
substituted (most dictionaries give "non" or "without" for the "a"
in atheist). I trust you know what theist means. The only thing
that the word atheist or atheism always informs you of is that the
person is not a theist. A non-theist. Without theism. Atheists
come in all flavors other than theist. Of course I already told you
this in the post to which you are responding to and in earlier
ones.
WALT Jr.
it has a cosmology,>>
DAR
This is false. I am without a belief in a God, what is my
cosmology Walt Jr.? What is the cosmology of a Buddhist? What
is the cosmology of my six year old son who does not believe in
a god? You can say that most atheists may have a cosmology, but
in my opinion you cannot say that atheism has a cosmology. Not
correctly anyway. The word does not address cosmology, at all.
WALT Jr
it has a psychology, it has a sociological theory, etc...>>
DAR
False etc... See above.
WALT Jr.
In fact, atheism provides "answers" for every discipline;
DAR
I am not sure if it makes sense to say this but of all the false
statements that you make in this post I think this one is perhaps
the most false. Atheism provides "answers" for no discipline.
If I tell you I am "not drinking a coke" this gives you know real
information other than "I am not drinking a coke." It doesn't tell
you what color socks I am wearing or if I am wearing socks. It
doesn't tell you what I ate for lunch, my favorite song, my sexual
preference, my mother's maiden name or the number of pistons
in
my car. Yet this is exactly the kind of nonsense you are
ridiculously trying to milk out of the word atheist, a word which
tells you nothing certain other than that the person who takes
such a title does not assert the existence of a deity. I know you
read this crap over and over in you fundie books Walt Jr., but it
is simply wrong.
WALT Jr.
therefore, for you to say that atheism is simply the absence of
belief and that atheists simply maintain nothing is false.
DAR
I read enough of your posts to know that you are at least
consistent. You don't respond to points and you make stuff up. I
certainly never said that atheists maintain nothing. I have
repeatedly said that do maintain that they do not believe in a god.
That is something. Individually they maintain many other things
too but you cannot divine (no pun) what they are from the word
atheist. Although I know you would like to.
Very often "atheism is simply the absence of belief" (in a god
obviously) as I have correctly said. A friend sent me this in an e-
mail yesterday so I will simply cut and paste it here:
"By definition from Webster's Unabridged Encyclopedic
Dictionary.
a.the.ist: n. 1. one who denies or disbelieves the existence
of God or gods."
In my experience atheist come in two large sub-groups. The
ones who deny (commonly considered strong atheism) and those
who say they disbelieve or lack a belief in a god or gods
(commonly considered weak atheism). Neither assert the
existence of a god and both fulfill the only requirement the title
requires. That is that a person be NOT a THEIST. That's it.
WALT Jr.
Certainly atheists maintain many universal truths.>>
DAR
Sorry, you cannot get this from the title atheist.
WALT Jr.
For instance, metaphysics is a waste of time.>>
DAR
Buddhists are commonly considered atheist. Do all Buddhists
consider it a universal truth that metaphysics is a waste of time?
You should really try to learn something about atheism before
you try to talk about it Walt Jr. You haven't gotten anything right
yet.
WALT Jr.
Ethics are ultimately determined by man.>>
DAR
Oops, you may have something here. Without a god who else
would determine this? No, I still thing you are wrong. I bet some
think that some are determined genetically (rather than derived by
reason if this is what you meant) and probably some nut balls
think they are determined by aliens. Point being, you are reading
things into the word atheist which go beyond what the word
informs you of.
I would agree that all atheists do not think that ethics are
determined by God. This would require a belief in God and this
would clearly contradict "atheist." Again we are back to the fact
that atheists can believe any and all things that do not require a
God.
WALT Jr.
There is no afterlife and therefore justice is to be found in this
life.>>
DAR
Sorry, do you want me to find some people who do not
believe in a personal god who do believe in an afterlife? I bet
there are millions. Does reincarnation (a form of afterlife) require
a personal god, or any kind of god? I don't see why. Visit the new
age section of your book store sometime. Look into Buddhism.
Go to California.
WALT
Man is simply a product of evolutionary forces that developed
consciousness and therefore man is biochemically determined,
etc...>>
DAR
Blah blah blah... you really should stick to the Bible Walt Jr.
Maybe you would have better luck.
WALT Jr.
Nice try trying to make atheism look so benign. It certainly does
make claims and many claims at that.>>
DAR
Nice try trying to insert everything including the kitchen sink
into a word that simply means not, theist.
You know what I am really starting to enjoy about atheism? (I
have only considered myself an atheist for about eight months
now). It bugs the snot out of Christians. They can tolerate various
forms of heresy to certain degrees but nothing gets their goat
better, nothing is more insulting to their elaborate sand castles
that they build each Sunday, nothing pisses them off more
thoroughly, than the suggestion that maybe, just maybe there is
no God. The profound and obvious implication or suggestion is
then that all of their childish praying, begging and groveling is a
complete and absurd, farce. Perhaps they know this deep down. I
don't know.
I am certainly glad I was brief. It is 2 am and I have been up
for 20 hours now.
Did you see my post on divorce Walt Jr.? I have posted it
several times but don't think I have ever heard a Christian
response to it. Could you say a sentence or two on it? I'll post it
again.
cheers,
Darrel
-----------------
"The fool saith in his heart, 'There is no god,' the wise man saith
it out loud." --Ps. 14:1 RSV (Revised Secular Version)
====================================================================
For help, send a message to errancy-request@infidels.org with the word
"help" in the subject or body of your message. To unsubscribe from
ERRANCY, send a message to errancy-request@infidels.org with the word
"unsubscribe" in the subject or body of your message.