Helen:
I'm going to jump in on this one. Paul makes sex a bad thing. The early
Christians hermits made sex a bad thing. The Catholic and Orthodox Chruches
made sex a bad thing with their vows of celebacy and their nuns.
The Jewish law teaches go forth and multiply which, in general, caused the
Jews to see sex in the right place as a commandment. I been told by Jewish
girl friends that the rabbis teach that sex between a husband and wife is a
commandment and a blessing and to do it on Sabbath is a double blessing. That
this doesn't sound anything like Paul, or the early Christians, has always
been a difficulty for Christians, especially since the early Christian
attitude sound so much like the Greek (Platonic, I think) thoughts on the
matter and Paul seems to have been very comfortable writing in Greek and
never uses Hebrew sources for scripture references.
You see, David, on top of much of the NT being very much more like pagan
myths than Jewish ones there is the problem that Paul give no indication of
every having read the Jewish bible in Hebrew or even of knowing Hebrew. This
is hard to believe for a man who claims to be a student of Gamaliel, the head
of the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:3). You think Paul would have had to learn how to
read and write Hebrew to study the law and would have quoted from the Hebrew
version of the Bible, not from the Septuagint. He, at least, should of had
some idea that the Septuagint reads differently from the Hebrew text.
And, now, we have apparently have him expressing pagan attitudes on sex. An
attitude the gospels with their virgin birth story and Jesus not marrying
would seem to agree with him on. Hum. Gospels that have the supposedly Jewish
Jesus cursing the Jews. Hum. Gospels, three of which don't know the Jewish
day begins at sunset. Hum. Gospels that identify the high priest as the
leader of the Sanhedrin. Hum. Gospels, three of which have various Jewish
officials (the high priest, the Sanhedrin, and the king) doing all kinds of
stuff from arresting Jesus and having trials to being involved in crucifying
him either the night of the first passover seder, apparently leaving their
own celebration to do this, or the next day. Hum.
David, I said this before the NT reads like a Greek mystery religion
invented by Greeks and followed by Greeks and given by Greeks what Greeks
thought was Jewish gloss to make more exotic. (Maybe with a root of some
small Jewish sect founded by a rabbi, who may or may not have made a
massianic claim in the Jewish sense of the term) Where do you find any
compelling evidence for any large scale genuine Jewish involvement in the
founding of this religion?
Sorry for ranting so long,
(COURT 3/13) Helen: It is certainly not ranting - a very interesting post.
I don't concur with you that sex is considered an "evil" thing in the NT.
Here are a few reasons:
Matt 19 - Jesus specifically mentions sexual "immorality" (as does Paul
often) - this implies that there is also sexual "morality" - he specifies
where sexual behaviour is immoral - in other words where it is "wrong" or
"evil". In this chapter he praises the virtues of marriage (and oneness),
never stating anywhere that sex in marriage is wrong in any way.
1 Corinthians 7 - Paul here explores the dangers of sexual "immorality" -
and recommends that to battle this, two should marry to AVOID being sexual
immoral - again, here, like Jesus, Paul is okaying sex in marriage as a
virtuous act, and sex outside of marriage as sexually "immoral". But no
where does he say that sex itself is "evil". Look at v 5 - he is
encouraging them to have sex, but not to deprive themselves of the things of
God as a result - he urges them (us) to prioritize the importance of these
things.
Paul spends this entire chapter illustrating the draw of sex in our lives,
and its proper place: in marriage. His bottom line point is that there is
nothing that should come between us and our relationship with God - nothing.
If sex is a distraction - then by all means - do it - but in its proper
forum: marriage. Again, I do not see him implying sex is "wrong" or "evil".
On the other hand, he certainly is making it clear, as Jesus did, that
irresponsible sexual behaviour IS wrong, and IS sin.
1 Timothy 5 - Paul, in admonishing Timothy, states clearly that young women
"should bear children" first before entering the ministry - a clear
indicator he did not consider sex taboo - again, if it is done in the proper
arena: marriage.
There are many other examples of course, but I feel it is clear in both the
words of Paul, Jesus and others that sex is certainly not wrong, but that
sexual immorality, or irresponsibility, or immaturity is wrong. The REAl
wrong, as they all clearly state, especially Paul, is that God MUST come
first: presenting ourselves in as pure a form to God as we possibly can: and
that means that money, sex, power or anything else that impedes this reality
must be purged from our lives - anything that dethrones God from being
number one.
This is interesting, Helen - thank you.
Regards.
Dave.
"God being who he is and what he is, there is in the Godhead and in man's
relationship to God a transcendency that outstrips reason. But also, it
must be said, there is never anything in that relationship that outrages
reason."
- Harry Verploegh