Meanness (to Ian and Jeff Magill)
David Court (hoover1@NETCOM.CA)
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:16:20 -0400 (EDT)
David Court wrote:
>
> > > But, David, people only need saving because he condemns them! He
> > > created evil in the first place (its in the bible!). Its not a
> > > pretty picture. Julie
> > >
> > > (DAVE 6/14) Julie: Good question. Why do you conclude that God has
> > > condemned us?
> > >
> > > Let me ask you a question (on this Fathers Day) - would you say that I
am a
> > > better father if: (a) I allow my son to choose what he would like to
do with
> > > his life and be a guide and a supporter through that process, or (b) I
> > > choose it for him and make him do what I want him to do?
> > >
> > > Please explain your answer.
> > >
> > > Many thanks.
> > >
> > > Dave.
> >
> > (Ian 6/16) Dave, you dunce, since you won't answer my last post on 'day,' I
> > thought I'd drop in on you here.
> >
> > (Ian) If you as an earthly father allow your son to make his own choice in
> this
> > life as far as career, choice of mate, etc., he only has the rest of his
> > life to
> > pay for it. With your friggin Jesus, if one does not accept him, a person is
> > supposed to pay for all eternity. THAT IS EVIL!!!
> >
> > (DAVE 6/16) Ian: Fair enough - I would term it "sad" and "horrific"
> > spawned by "evil", not Evil itself. No matter, we may use the words
> > differently that is all.
> >
> > What is "evil"?
>
> (Ian 6/16) I don't know Dave. Why don't you ask Jeff? He seems to be our
> expert on Jesus.
>
> (DAVE 6/17) Ian: I didn't ask about Jesus though - I asked about evil (and
> the question can be for Jeff as well - why not). You said that something is
> "evil" - I simply asked you what evil was, and how do you determine if
> something is "evil" or not? This is important, despite your opposition,
> because, unless we are using the same frame of reference to determine what
> "evil" is, we could both have diffierent views of what evil ACTUALLY is, and
> at the same time BOTH be right.
>
> Do you agree that this is the case, or do you think we both have a fairly
> similar view of what "evil" is? If so, what is our common frame of
> reference for determing what evil is?
>
> The question is a fair one.
>
> Interested in your response.
(Ian 6/17) Dave, I'm not going to get involved in an attempt at trying to
define a
word where we can both have a somewhat different meaning to it such as good and
evil.
(DAVE 6/18) Ian: But if we could have a "somewhat different meaning",
shouldn't that be established before we actually debate that something?
Ian
Surely we will agree in some areas and disagree on others. It is my opinion
that any person and any God that would doom another to eternal hell just
because he
did not believe, is evil.
(DAVE 6/18) Ian: But doesn't the Bible teach that we are already destined
for "hell" and THEN are provided a way out by God? "All have fallen short
of the glory of God...". If God is so evil, why does he provide an avenue
out? Why the whole gospel message? If he was indeed evil he would be quite
happy knowing everyone is going to hell, wouldn't you think?
Ian
Thertefor, Jesus is evil, and since Jeff is such an
expert on Jesus I think you should ask him.
(DAVE 6/18) Ian: I, respectfully, don't agree with you that Jesus is evil.
Nor is God. But then again, we may have different ideas of what "evil" is.
I'll let Jeff speak for himself - but would be interested to hear what he
has to say.
By the way, just out of interests sake, you still haven't told me how you
determine or classify something as being "evil" - what is it about something
that makes you say "that's evil"? Just curious.
Regards.
Dave.
"The Salvation Army is one of the few Christian organizations in Europe that
enjoys the respect of the secular culture. Though the culture may reject
the religious convictions of the Army, they are aware that when a crisis
occurs and people are in pain, the Salvation Army is there. That kind of
reputation is what the Church is supposed to have and will have when it
takes its priestly task seriously in a community."
- Sproul