(DAVE 6/17) Michael: No, I ask those who use these "words" in their
opposition to my faith to explain what they mean by them and how they came
to determine what they meant. For example, Ian said that Jesus and God were
"evil" - would it not be appropriate to ask him what he means by that, and
how he came to determine it? That's not even a defence, it's simply a question.
Michael
Of course, they're all equal then in ambiguity and meaninglessness, but
Dave's happy so long as HIS view thereby is no more meaningless than anybody
elses.
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: No, but the lack of meaning in an errantist's
position becomes evident when asked to define words you may cling to, like
"good" and "evil". This certainly doesn't make me happy - maybe sad if
anything.
Michael
At least one of the reasons Dave doesn't talk to me anymore is that where
and when I choose to engage him, I simply don't leave him room any more to play
his silly game, so he's lost in discussions with me.
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: Agreed. I am often lost in discussions with you -
I'll be honest.
Michael
Although the goal of most is to dissipate ambiguity, the "fog" if you
will, about subjects under discussion, Dave's goal is exactly the opposite--to
maximize the fog, to make it as thick as possible.
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: No, but to point out how unclear and uncertain the
errantist position is - that is not making fog - that is recognizing that it
exists.
Michael
That way he won't have to deal with the emptiness of his core beliefs.
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: What are the core beliefs of mine that I don't deal with?
Michael
Just keep giving him the following argument until he either deals with it
or goes away:
Syllogism
(P1)Yahweh is all knowing (by definition)
(P2)An all knowing being can not forget.
(C1) Yahweh cannot forget.
Modus Tollens [If p then q :: not-q, therefore not-p]
If Yahweh cannot forget, then he would never forget a command to
an individual. In Numbers 22:20-22 Yahweh forgets his command to Balaam,
therefore Yahweh can forget.
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: Where does it say he "forgot" a command? Please show me.
* * *
-->Now I'll compact the arguments a bit, but if need be, I can
set them out formally if you wish:
But if If Yahweh can forget, then he is not all knowing.
But the Bible says Yahweh must be all knowing.
Therefore either the Bible is wrong about Yahweh and not to be
trusted, or Yahweh does not exist and the Bible is nothing but myth.
Or both.
You asked for the proof Dave, do you ever intend to respond?
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: Sure. Where does it say God forgot?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Michael
Every time Dave posts, just reply with that question.
Then we'll see how good Dave is at dealing with "the challenge of
decision" and see how he can deal with a "most unwelcome but realistic"
question
that he can't evade, at least on list, because everyone keeps throwing it
up in
his face. :-)
(DAVE 6/17) Michael: I just read two more versions and don't seem to see
any inclination the Bible makes here to God forgetting anything. You're not
reading from the Tillian version again are you?
Or is this typical Fisher assumed assertionizing?
Regards.
Dave.
P.S. Debate aside, I should have answered this post long ago - no excuse -
that's not right to let it go on so long - my apologies.
"The Salvation Army is one of the few Christian organizations in Europe that
enjoys the respect of the secular culture. Though the culture may reject
the religious convictions of the Army, they are aware that when a crisis
occurs and people are in pain, the Salvation Army is there. That kind of
reputation is what the Church is supposed to have and will have when it
takes its priestly task seriously in a community."
- Sproul