Magill- this passage is speaking of how God called Israel into a nation
not how He would deliver mankind specifically through His Messiah.
Isaiah 53 specifically describes the suffering of His Messiah when He
atones for the sin of mankind. God never called Israel to do this. There
is no other conclusion outside of absurdity.
Magill- Yes, this is speaking of the nation of Israel. Yes, this is
obvious. The question still remains though, where does God specifically
say that the Nation of Israel will atone for the sins of all mankind as
we find in the Isaiah 53 prophecy? Even Jews understand that only the
Messiah can fulfill this claim.
>
> And here is a more obvious one.
>
> >Isaiah 42:1 Here is MY SERVANT, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul
> delights; I have put my spirit upon him;
Magill- This is Messianic prophecy and can only refer to the finished
work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Thank you for pointing out this
beautiful passage of scripture for us all to read.
he will bring forth justice to the
> nations.
> >2 HE will not cry or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street;
> >3 a bruised reed HE will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not
> quench; HE will faithfully bring forth justice.
> >4 HE will not grow faint or be crushed until he has established justice in
> the earth; and the coastlands wait for his teaching.
Magill- Those who listened to the teachings of Jesus Christ were often
astonished the Scripture records. This astonishment conotates an almost
fear of amazment in the Greek.
> >5 Thus says God, Yahweh, who created the heavens and stretched them out,
> who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the
> people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it:
> >
>
> Now don't try to claim that Matthew said that this was a prophecy of Jesus
> (12:18-20), because that would merely beg the question you have to prove.
> Luke claimed that Isaiah 53 was a prophecy of Jesus (Acts 8:32-35), but the
> issue is whether Luke and other Christians are correct in saying that the
> suffering servant was Jesus.
Magill- These men were two of the authors of the NT and their claim is
that this is the case. How are you able to disprove that their claim was
incorrect? They were there. They knew who Jesus was and they were
eyewitnesses to His majesty. Their witness, back then, is far more
credible than yours is today. I can read their recorded accounts of what
they witnessed. How then can you disprove with any legitimacy that what
they wrote was incorrect?
The passage above refers to a servant as an
> individual (he, he, he, he), and the context in which it appears clearly
> shows that this servant was the nation of Israel. If you dispute this, then
> you must give a reasonable explanation
Magill - Why? What was said before is not what we are talking about now.
It has no bearing on the issue at hand. We are talking about the verses
of Scripture in Isaiah 53 which are all about Jesus Christ. I don't have
to do anything of the sort. You are not the great definer of what is and
what is not. You must prove how you know that Isaiah 53 wasn't referring
to Jesus Christ when the authors of the NT said he was. This you have
not done.
for why Isaiah had said just before
> this that Israel was "my [Yahweh's] servant" and why he went on after the
> quotation above to address his comments to "you," whom he later identified
> as Jacob or Israel.
Magill- I understand your inablitiy to discern between fallen Israel and
Messianic prophecy but its not my fault that you can't in your blind
state discern the difference. You have quoted passages which pertain to
both the nation of Israel collectively and the Messiah individually.
It's not my job to open your eyes.
>
> Furthermore, Isaiah went on in this passage to say that this servant was
> deaf and blind (v:18-19), and the statement was not made in a complimentary
> way but in reference to the servant's refusal to "observe" and "hear"
> Yahweh. Could Magill explain to us in what sense these descriptions of this
> servant would fit the perfect Jesus?
Magill - Till, start with the premise that the entire passage of Isaiah
53 is about Jesus Christ specifically and maybe you will get it.
>
> Farrell Till
> Skepticism, Inc.
> jftill@midwest.net