Apologist web site- Mithraism
Artemis420@aol.com Artemis420@aol.com
Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:28:35 -0400 (EDT) (00873023315, 970831002833_-966796274@emout11.mail.aol.com)
In a message dated 97-08-31 00:18:55 EDT, hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET (Helen Willis)
writes:
<< Subj: Re: Apologist web site- Mithraism
Date: 97-08-31 00:18:55 EDT
From: hhiwater@BRIGHT.NET (Helen Willis)
Sender: owner-errancy@infidels.org
To: errancy@infidels.org
Steven Carr wrote:
>
> In message <199708292154.PAA24218@maxwell.lucifer.com>, Steve Carson-
> Rowland <kirra@powerup.com.au> writes
>
> >Here's an extract from "Was the New Testament Influenced by Pagan
> >Religions?" (an article from the Christian Research Journal, Winter 1994,
> >page 8) by RonaldNash.
> >[http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0169a.txt]
> >
> >"The major reason why no Mithraic influence on first-century Christianity
> >is possible is the timing: it's all wrong! The flowering of Mithraism
> >occurred after the close of the New Testament canon, much too late for it
> >to have influenced anything that appears in the New Testament.[9]
Moreover,
> >no monuments for the cult can be dated earlier than A.D. 90-100, and even
> >this dating requires us to make some exceedingly generous assumptions.
> >Chronological difficulties, then, make the possibility of a Mithraic
> >influence on early Christianity extremely improbable. Certainly, there
> >remains no credible evidence for such an influence."
>
> CARR
> Note the words 'flowering' of Mithraism. It is true that there are no
> monuments earlier than 90-100AD, but Mithras is mentioned by Xenophon
> and Plutarch (c. 75BC) mentions Mithraism among the sailors of Cilicia.
>
> Mithraism predates Christianity.
> I doubt if it had a direct influence on Christianity.
>
> --
> Steven Carr steven@bowness.demon.co.uk
> Visit the UK's leading atheist Web page
> http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/
Helen:
I think this is a Christian dodge. It is the Greek and Egyptian religions,
not the Persian, that seem to have had a great influence on early
Christianity. The whole Mary and the infant Jesus thing which was very big
in
all Christianity early on, still is in all Christian sects except
protestants, is clearly lifted from the worship of Isis which definitely
dates well before Paul and Christianity. The Greeks were the ones with the
virgin born human sons of father Zeus, of which Dionysius would be my choice
for the most similar. This faith can be dated at least to the time of the
golden age of Greek theater (approx. 425-500BC) since the plays deal mainly
with this faith. This cult and the worship of Hercules, who was also Zeus'
son by virgin, both well predate Christianity. The worship of Cybele which
came to Rome in 204 BC was the faith with the Taurobulium, the ritual bath
in
the blood of a bull or ram that would be slain above the worshipers head.
However, the fundies tend to answers any suggestion that there was a lot
of
borrowing from pagan sources in Christianity by stating that Mithraism
didn't
enter the Roman Empire until after Christianity was well established. My
guess would be that reason that Mithraism and Christianity have some similar
rituals and prayers is they both borrowed the similar rituals and prayers
from these obviously earlier faiths.
Ho hum, the fundies figure any answers is an answer and to their way of
thinking, the argument that they avoided the the hard parts of the issue,
gives no reason to continue to discuss the issue.
Helen Willis
hhiwater@bright.net
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>>
Dont forget celestial Hercules and the Invincible Sun. But yes; Isis lives,
and the Eternal mother is older by far than Christianity.