CHRIST-IAN
(Christ-Ian 4/2) Farrill, I have the greatest respect for you so maybe I owe
Jerry an apology. Perhaps I don't know what the Church-of-Christ doctrines
are. For example. do they strive to get laws passed that reflect their
religious beliefs? Prayer in school? Anti-abortion? Prohibition? Censureship?
My feelings are that like all other fundamentalists, they do.
TILL
The Church of Christ is, to say the least, very different from most
churches. During the motel-room conflab of the magnificient seven during
the Oklahoma City debate, Tod Billings said that he was going to hit Jerry
McDonald with Mark 16:17ff and challenge him to drink some poison to prove
his faith. I quickly told him not to bother, because the Chruch of Christ
believes that these signs, like all other miraculous gifts, were given to
the early church only until the NT was completed. A major proof-text that
Jerry would cite for this would be 1 Corinthians 13:8-9, "Love never fails,
but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be
tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge it shall be done away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect
is come, that which is in part shall be done away." That which is perfect
to a member of the Church of Christ, and possibly other sects (sorry, Jerry)
too, would be the NT. Thus, he would argue that we now have the NT and
therefore have no need for spiritual gifts, which ceased long ago.
CHRIST-IAN
Perhaps Jerry and the Church-of-Christers are not militant now but what
happens if some reconstructionalist fundamentalist gets in power?
TILL
Well, that's another matter altogether. Many of us remember when Sam
Krishna was on the list expressing a longing for the time when God is
enthroned in America and skeptics and atheists will get what's coming to
them, but I really don't think there would be much sentiment in that
direction in the Church of Christ.
CHRIST-IAN
I don't think the German people could have been called militants in the
religious
sense. Look what Hitler did with them. Then we have the former Yogoslavia
where Christians and Muslims lived together in peace as neighbors only to have
some charismatic leader rise up and have them kill each other off.
TILL
Yes, I freely admit that fundamentalism in general is a danger to our basic
freedoms, but I never encountered any leanings toward wanting to seize
political control when I was in the Church of Christ. If such sentiments
are in it now, they developed since I left it.
CHRIST-IAN
Do I owe Jerry an apology, not in my book. He spoke of me as an enemy. He says
he can find no scriptual evidence for any holy day except having Sunday, the
first day of the week as the sabbath.
TILL
I don't recall what statement you are referring to, but I think you probably
misunderstood it. The sabbath is the seventh day of the week to Chruch of
Christ members, and Jerry would be disfellowshiped if he should teach that
Sunday is the sabbath. What Jerry believes, unless he is very different
from other Church-of-Christ preachers (and I don't think he is) is that the
sabbath day commandment was abrogated with the law of Moses when Jesus died
on the cross and fulfilled it. He would base this belief on such passages
as Colossians 2:13-17; Ephesians 2:14; and Romans 7:1-6. Long-timers on the
list know from my previous postings that I would agree that McDonald is
correctly interpreting what these passages teach. I just don't agree that
they represent anything except the opinion of the apostle Paul and whoever
wrote Colossians if Paul didn't (as many scholars believe). McDonald's
belief that the first day of the week replaced the sabbath as a day of
special observance is based on examples of what the early church seemed to
practice (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7).
CHRIST-IAN
He has substituted his INTERPRETATIONS of NT writings for what his god has
allegedly WRITTEN IN STONE.
TILL
Well, I agree, and I disagree. There are too many OT passages that clearly
teach that Yahweh's covenant with Israel was an everlasting covenant to
reconcile them with Paul's dispensationalism. However, I believe that what
Paul said on the subject was too clear to misunderstand, so I can't accuse
McDonald of just substituting his interpretations for what was written in
stone. He is substituting Paul's opinion for what was written in stone. I
would like to hear what Jerry has to say about this.
CHRIST-IAN
Any fundamentalist, be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, Bhuddist and even Atheist
are in my opinion, dangerous people.
TILL
I agree, but there are degrees of danger. Jerry McDonald's views, if forced
upon the general public by laws, would certainly encroach on personal
freedoms, and I consider that a danger. However, I don't think that his
views are nearly as dangerous as the Christian Reconstructionists and racial
supremacists groups.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net