> Then of course you have the problem of WHEN the amazing mystical Jesus
> "cleansed" the temple:
>
> The synoptic gospels (Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-17, Luke 19:45-46)
have
> him doing this deed toward the end of his "ministry", shortly befor his
> crucifixion.
>
> The gospel of John chapter 2: 14-19), has him doing it (with a whip that
he
> himself made) at the beginning of his ministry, right after the wedding at
> Cana, almost immediately after calling his disciples.
>
> Oh, but let me guess... Jesus "cleansed" the temple twice. I guess that
> after the first time the Temple officials didn't figure out that they
> shouldn't let this violent whip-wielding maniac near the temple. A maniac
> whose fame, according to the NT had spread throughout the country, so that
> multitudes welcomed him into Jerusalem and the threatened Jewish religious
> leaders were testing him and looking for ways to kill him.
>
> Do I get a brownie-button from the Holy Spirit for rightly "discerning the
> word of truth"?
Izz
You get a brownie point, Yoel, for pointing out another contradiction, that
John and the synoptic gospels disagree about when in his ministry Jesus
cleansed the Temple. BUT.... you aren't getting off the hook with your
fundie excuse that Jesus cursed the tree twice... that's impossible according
to the way Matthew and Mark are written:
In Mark, Jesus enters Jerusalem, looks around, then goes to Bethany for the
night. Mark 11:12: "The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was
hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it
had any fruit" (You mean the same guy who can predict the future, who knows
all things, doesn't know if the tree had fruit? - How come, Yoel the
Fundie?)...."When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves...." (I bet he
was disappointed!.... don't forget, he is on his way back to Jerusalem and
the disciples are with him and watching)...."because it was not the season
for figs" (You think the disciples were whispering to each other, "What is
he doing?" "I don't know. He said he was hungry." "Yeah, but everyone knows
there are no figs this time of year" "Ok, YOU tell him!" "Look, he found
out for himself!") Mark goes on "Then [Jesus] said to the tree, "May no one
ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say
it."....(Disciples: "Listen! He is cursing that tree!" "Are you not glad now
YOU didn't tell him!") .... Mark then says that Jesus entered the temple and
"cleansed" it, overturning the tables, etc. (Disciple: "I AM glad I did not
tell him! He is really pissed today!"
So now, Yoel, you want to add MATTHEW??? Ok.....Matthew 21:12-21 "Jesus
entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying.... He overturned
the tables... And then he left them and [spent the night at Bethany]....
Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road he went up to it...." (So Yoel, you are saying
the Son of God is stupid enough to go back to the same tree he cursed
yesterday, and look for figs again, out of season?) But Yoel, Mark 11:20
contradicts... it says that "In the morning, as they went along, they saw the
fig tree withered from the roots." Which was it, Yoel? Was the tree
withered the next morning, like Mark says, or did it have leaves like Matthew
says, because in Matthew, Jesus hasn't cursed it yet? Mark now says that Pete
r pointed out to Jesus that the tree was withered, but Matthew said that
Jesus went up to it... Matthew continues,"...[he] found nothing on it except
leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the
tree withered." Ok, Yoel which way was it? Did they find the tree whithered,
as Mark says, or was the tree still with leaves on the second day, and Jesus
went up to it (a second time, you say!) and then cursed it and it whithered
on the spot? In which case, how do you account for Peter's words? You are in
a hole, Yoel! Your "the tree was cursed twice" explaination is easy to say,
but it just shows you are waving your hands and inventing an answer, which a
reading of the actual text shows cannot have happened. This contradiction is
not so easy to dismiss as you seem to think. It is still standing.
This is fun!
Izz
PS - Hobbs I will deal with you next!