Re: Founding Fathers

Robert Squires (r-squires@worldnet.att.net)
Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:42:20 -0400

At 06:38 PM 23-04-97 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>> "Of course, the United States was not originally intended to be a Christian
>> nation. Jefferson, Washington, Franklin and most of the founding fathers
>> were skeptics or Deists; they specifically intended a secular government
>> with an unbreachable wall between church and state; they even wrote into
>> the treaty with the Moslem nation of Tripoli a clear statement that, unlike
>> European countries, the United States is not, in any sense, a Christian
>> nation. (So clearly understood was the principle of separation of church
>> and state in those days that the treaty passed Congress without any debate
>> on that clause, and President John Adams signed it at once, without any
>> fear that it might jeopardize his political future.)"
>> [Robert Anton Wilson, "Sex and Drugs", 1973]
>
>(Ian 4/22) Having studied the religious affilliations of the founding
fathers, I have
>to disagree with Robert Anton Wilson. Many if not most of the founding
fathers were
>christians. Fortunately there were not too many fundamentalists and the
religions of
>these men were so diverse that they would never have been able to agree on
any one
>religion. As a matter of fact, it was the Methodists and the Baptists who
pushed
>hardest for separation of church and state because they were not part of
the state
>religions. I will be more than happy to answer any questions any of you may
have on
>this subject.

SQUIRES
>From what I've read and hear in regards to the religious affiliations of the
Founding Fathers, both sides often go to extremes. Some non-theists try to
make one think that most of them were non-Christians, while the Religious
Reich tries to make people think that they were all Christians. The truth
seems to be somewhere in the middle. I don't know if I agree that "most of
the founding fathers were skeptics or Deists", but certainly a good many of
them were. I don't think any were "fundamentalists" Christians, or at least
they were in the extreme minority. Included in the tally of non-Christians
should be included many of them who were only nominal or "public"
Christians, who attending church on Sunday but didn't really believe.
Certainly the fundies wouldn't consider them "saved" if they were just some
ordinary politician who was alive today. George Washington was a
church-goer but his private correcpondence clearly shows that he was a
skeptic who had grave doubts about Christianity. A model man but certainly
not a model Christian!

But anyway...the main point is IT DOESN'T MATTER what they were. They DID
support a wall between Church and State. The Religious Reich, in trying to
prove otherwise, tries to prove that many of the Founding Fathers were
Christians - as if this keeps them from believing in Church/State
separation. The point is very clearly brought out in the book "The Godless
Constitution", by Isaac Kramnick and Laurence Moore. It's worthwhile
reading for everyone. They decisively show that even though many of the
Founding Fathers were Christians who believed that religoius morality was
necessary for the publich good, they also felt that government should NOT
play any role in promoting or favouring a particular religion. American
history is full of Christians who strongly support Church/State separation
(though churches tend to change their views as they grow larger and more
powerful. (Gee, this unchanging divinely revealed morality sure is funny
isn't it!) So even IF the majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians -
and even IF all of them were - it doesn't matter. They wrote a "godless"
constitution. Why? Because obviously they had a knowledge of the religious
bloodbath called European history. It was fresh in their minds. So even
though many of the Founding Fathers were religious, they had enough sense to
know that mixing Church and States just doesn't work.

I have ancestors who were Welsh Anabaptists and French Huguenots who came to
America in the 1690s to get away from religious persecution. It's been a
pretty good 300 years, but where I can flee to when the Religious Reich
takes over this country?

Rob Squires
r-squires@worldnet.att.net
**************************
Ex-Episcopalian
Ex-Born Again
Ex-Sufi
Ex-Muslim
...all of 'em suck!

P.S. The book "The Godless Constitution" is available at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0393039617/internetinfidelsA/8549-563
4775-250440