First of all, most people do believe in God for many of those reasons. If
you ask the average person on the street if and why they believe in God, the
most common response will be, "well, how did everything get here?" A crude
form of the cosmological argument, yes, but the argument nevertheless.
TILL
Yes, I know this is what most people will say. I used to say it too, but I
was totally and completely ignorant of the reasoned responses to the
cosmological argument. Most people "on the street" who would express a
belief in God aren't just ignorant of the responses to the cosmological
argument but are also scientifically ignorant. I include myself in this
latter group, although I think that my knowledge of science is at least a
cut above the average person "on the street." Furthermore, most of these
people "on the street" couldn't quote a scripture if their lives depended on
it, yet they believe that God exists and the Bible is "his word." I'm sure
too that if people "on the street" in a country like India should be
surveyed, most of them would express a belief in Vishnu and would be able to
parrot back some type of argument they have heard all of their lives
(without ever bothering to examine it) as "proof" that their belief is true.
Walt, this is hardly an impressive argument. In fact, the longer I read
your postings, the less impressed I am with you.
WALT JR
As for it pointing to the christian god, well, I never claimed that. Most
people don't know the evidence, so your assertion fails when you say that
most people should believe in the christian god if it is so compelling. I
will say this, I have seen more people trust in Christ and devote their
lives to God than I have seen people turn away from God.
TILL
I'll tell you what I think, Walt. If we could organize a continuous debate
that went on night after night for an extended period like a year or two and
if we would have the same audience each night, evenly divided with 500
Christians and 500 atheists, I have no doubt that the "conversions" that
would happen over time would be substantially tilted toward the atheistic
position.
WALT JR
I spend a lot of time around nonchristians, so I can make an objective
observation about that. I would love to go over those points one by one,
however, I know you don't want this list to go off on a serious tangent...so
I won't.
TILL
I spend a lot of time with non-Christians too (by this, I mean people who
are committed agnostics and atheists), and I know that the majority of them
were once Christians but turned away from it. At my lecture in Atlanta last
Sunday, as Jason Valentine and Raymond Hicks can confirm, I asked for a show
of hands of those who had once been believers. The majority of the audience
raised their hands. I also spent a lot of time with Christians when I was a
preacher, and I honestly can't recall ever knowing a single church member
who had once been an atheist. Yet today the popular trend is for Christians
to claim that they were once atheists too until they examined the evidence
for Christianity and found it too compelling to reject. Yeah, right! How
stupid do these people think we are?
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jftill@midwest.net