Re: Faith Not Works (Eph 2:9)
Ian Dorion (dorioni@intellinet.com)
Tue, 01 Apr 1997 08:56:22 -0600
yoel haalmoni wrote:
>
> David Court had said-
> >>What you have implied is that, say, Billy Graham
> >> and Adolf Hitler are both Christians - is that what you're saying? If so,
> >> that's one pretty broad definition - that's one pretty all inclusive group -
> >> so what is a Christian, Ian?
>
> Ian replied
> >(Christ-Ian 4/1) A "Christian" is anyone who calls themselves a christian
> >just >like an atheist is anyone who calls themselves an atheist.
>
> yoel-
> I would agree on the first with Ian, but not the second.
>
> As for WHO is saved, that is, who is a CHRISTIAN, the Bible is clear:
>
> "Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the
> son of God." 1John 5:21
>
> "Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Acts 2:21
>
> "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved- and all your household"
> Acts 16:31
>
> "Whomsoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13
>
> "If thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine
> heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans
> 10:9
>
> "By grace you are saved, through faith." Eph 2:8
>
> "... that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting
> life" John 3:16
>
> Whoever believes in Jesus is a Christian. "Not by works, lest any man
> should boast." (Eph 2:9)
>
> The Bible has spoken. Faith is the criteria. Not works. Not niceness. Not
> decency. Not even keeping the commandments. Faith. Belief in Jesus.
>
> As for atheists- one just has to be lacking in faith in a deity. If someone
> says that he is an atheist but believes in god... then he is clearly not an
> atheist.
>
> This is why I found Ronal confusing. he claimed to be an atheist, but also
> claimed to believe the stories in the Bible like Noah. He claimed that the
> Bible was a History book. Well, the Bible is ALL ABOUT GOD and his
> relationship with humanity. One can't deny that!
>
> Or who knows, maybe one could.... everyone, including some skeptics, seems
> to want to make excuses for the Bible- and therby for humanity's mass
> acceptance of it and books like it.
>
> Nothing anyone could claim about the Bible would surprise me. If
> MacDonald's claimed that the recipe for their secret sauce recipe was
> encoded in the Bible... I wouldn't be surprised, merely amused.
>
> yoel
>
> Hide, witch hide!
> The good folk come to burn thee
> Their keen enjoyment hid behind a gothic mask of duty.
> Jefferson Airplane
(Christ-Ian 4/1) Well, I'm sure there are "christians" who don't dive
any more of a damn about Jesus than I. And of course, there are atheists
who may believe in a god. Am I supposed to analize each and every
person? No! Is Jimmy Swaggert a christian? How about Jimmy Bakker?
Tammy? They call themselves christians and just because they may not be
very good examples doesn't make them not christians. If Ronal wants to
call himself an atheist, I guess we'll have to accept him at his word
even though it hurts. After all, we only have one Ronal.