Re: Atheist Foundation (to Aubrey/Michael Fisher/DAVE)
Walter Nusbaum (nusbaum@iglobal.net)
Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:15:01 -0600
At 08:11 PM 12/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 05:31 PM 11/30/96 -0600, Aubrey Matthews wrote:
>>
>>>> The evidence is that there is no evidence, and dozens of conflicting
>>>>claims.
>>>
>>>Account for life.
>>
>> It's here. It follows all the rules of chemistry and physics.
>
>(DAVE 12/4) Michael: Really. Perhaps you'll state what chemical or
>physical "rule" my ability to love follows. Or what "rule" accounts for me
>sleeping. Or what "rule" accounts for how I came into existence in the
>first place. Or what "rule" explains how I formed from hydrogen and helium
>amongst other elements. Start with those.
>Life is here, I agree. Aubrey was asking you to explain how it came to be.
>Which you have not answered.
>
>
>Aubrey>
>>> Create that which you say, "Just Happened by chance."
>>
>> Nobody, except creationist dimwits, says life happened "by chance".
>>And what does what I can do or not do have to do with the origin of life?
>>
>(DAVE 12/4) Michael: "Creationists" believe that the world was created, or
>designed. They do not believe anything happened by chance. I suggest you
>look up the meaning of "creationist" and "dimwit" one more time.
>I believe Aubrey is asking you how the universe, if not created, could have
>come about by chance. Which you have not answered.
>
>
>
>Aubrey
>>> If you can't, then why?!
>>
>> Why couldn't Archemedies fly? Surely he was as smart as anyone now
>>living. Why couldn't Newton fly? Newton had far better technology than
>>Archemedies, so what was his excuse? Why didn't Maxwell build a radar, or
>>even a simple radio? Maxwell discoverd the equations which govern
>>electromagnetic waves, so what was HIS problem?
>>
>> This is simply another form of the the argument Ad Ignoratio, in the
>>form of the "God of the Gaps".
>>
>(DAVE 12/4) Michael: Perhaps if you actually answered something it would
>be more beneficial. Aubrey's questions are legitimate. If you deny a
>creator, you deny design, you deny a God, then what are your beliefs
>concerning how we came into existence? It seems a clear enough question.
>
>Michael
>> >Yawn<
>
>Aubrey>
>>>And if that, which you can't create happened from
>>>nothing (Chance) then give me the exact details on how everything came to
>>>be, which in my book would be impossible since you can't create that, which
>>>you claim happened by chance. If you create the conditions for your logic
>>>and nothing happens, then another force is at work.
>>
>Michael>
>> As above.
>>
>(DAVE 12/4) Michael: What kind of an answer is that? Aubrey is asking you
>to explain something - please read above.
>You are, without a doubt, the most illogical errantist on this list -
>radically unsubstantiated statements, you're a wanna-be scientist who refers
>to fancy scientific principles without, it seems, an inkling of what they
>mean - you deny something yet you have no apparent reason for denying it (at
>least that you want to share with us).
>You seem like a pretty intelligent guy, Michael, I wish you would share it
>with us instead of these stupid Latin responses you have to everything.
>
>Michael
>> The argument Ad Ignoratio is fallacious, no matter how dressed up.
>>
>(DAVE 12/4) Michael: As above.
>
>Regards. Dave.>
(WALT 12/5)
What you are asking of Michael is quite impossible, as noted by Aubrey
above. In time, however, we will have our answer. Modern science has but
recently been on the scene. Since man's(poor, weak, miserable offender that
he is), first powered flight, 'til he walked on the moon required less than
seventy years' time, and his/her(our) technology is presently probing
the_entire solar system_. In biblical terms, this is truly a miracle,
ranking at least up there with the parting of the Red Sea. The point is that
this list(most of it), is willing to take a chance on chance, rather than
believe a myth-laden, dream-and-revelation driven theology, created by
priests of a clan of desert vagabonds, whose deity now supports _three_
major religions, each of which is at the other's throat.(Sorry about that
long sentence)(Hey Michael, I was an ET1 on the USS Sperry(AS-12)(Shop 67)
in '63-65. Maybe we can swap sea stories sometime!)